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In relation to the discussion about the increase of TPS with the Nairobi upgrade, is it correct to assume that the fee costs for txs etc will also be reduced?

Like a simple tx that now uses 1k gas is ~0.005tez or something. That same transaction I think will use 100 something gas after Nairobi but will the tez you pay be reduced accordingly or is there a chance that this will be readjusted and that 100something gas still costs ~0.005tez?

Question from Cryptonio.

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There is no such thing as gas fees. Gas and fees are different concepts.

Gas cost is set in the proto but cost in Tez is a convention set by the client. Octez client, taquito, tzgo etc probably updated the default cost in Tez in their Nairobi releases. To reflect the decrease in gas price. But you can put an arbitrary value as fee (even 0) and the baker is still free to include it.

A protocol update can change gas costs but the protocol does not define how much tez per gas unit must be paid for operations to be included; each baker can implement its own inclusion rule and client libs may charge more than necessary. AFAIK, last times gas savings happened, no baker took the opportunity to increase their minimum prices. There is no reason to expect things to be different this time, this will probably make the very low fees we see on Tezos even lower.

From a baker perspective, there is no reason to raise the prices. As long as blocks are not full, including an operation costs almost nothing for the baker and when blocks are full bakers select the most profitable operations first anyway. The only reason to reject operations with a too low fees/gas ratio is to prevent spam.

Answer from Nicholas Ochem and Raphael Cauderlier.

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  • I've always hated the response of "there is no gas fee", as to new devs this could not be more confusing, and its only true in a very technical sense, devoid of real life usecases. Is there anything in the protocol that says 1 gas unit = x XTZ? no there isn't ... however the default baker implementation (which practically every baker uses), does. In reality there is a fee of 100 nano XTZ per gas unit, and no baker will accept anything lower
    – Simon McLoughlin
    Commented Jun 26, 2023 at 15:20
  • There will be exceptions of course, private bakers can and will do their own thing. However, when a new developer is desperately trying to figure out how to build a client, and what to do with gas fees, telling them that there is no gas fee just leads to confusion. The answer should be "Most bakers use a default fee of 100 nano XTZ per gas, however they are free to customise it as its not set on a network level"
    – Simon McLoughlin
    Commented Jun 26, 2023 at 15:20
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    Hi @Ron, when you quote people, please mention it. Commented Jun 26, 2023 at 15:34
  • @SimonMcLoughlin: the behavior of the Octez baker is much more complex than 100 nano tez per gas unit. Fees are a way to both sell block space and gas at auction when blocks are full and to prevent spam when blocks are not full. Commented Jun 26, 2023 at 15:38
  • @RaphaëlCauderlier yes bakers will prioritise higher gas fees, when blocks are full this will decide if you make it in or not. However, as I stated, no public baker will accept a fee of less than 100 nano tez per gas. This is for all intents and purposes, our default minimum fee when we look at the real world. I was a new dev, told "there is no fee", and all it did was confuse and frustrate me and my team mates. I have, multiple times, had to explain the same to new devs. It causes mass confusion, and when looking at the main network, is objectively wrong as there is very clearly a minimum fee
    – Simon McLoughlin
    Commented Jun 26, 2023 at 15:50

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